I simply have to write down my thoughts on John and Paul's relationship, before I forget it.
First of all, I've started reading Cynthia's book, "John". It's quite cute, actually, and I like her writing style. (Although I must say that Julian's introduction did upset me a little bit, because I can understand him so well... Except for that my dad's alive, haha.)
Anyway, chapter three is quite interesting, regarding John's possessive way when he commits himself into a relationship and how he demands full attention from his lover:
Most of the time I went along with what John wanted. We laughed a lot, the attraction between us was powerful and exciting and he constantly came up with new escapades for us. But there was friction too. His insistence that I stayed with him until the last train from Liverpool Central to Hoylake, which got me home at midnight, upset me. I knew my mother would fret about me and I worried about leaving her alone so much of the time when she was still grieving for my father. Besides, I often had college work to catch up on. But John didn't give a damn about any of that, and if I tried to go home before the last train he threw a fit. He wanted me with him for as much of the time as possible, which meant that very early in our relationship I had to choose between him and my other needs and responsibilities.Now this bit reminded me of an interview of John's, which he gave in 1971:
And I was always saying [to Paul], 'Face up to your dad, tell him to fuck off. He can't hit you. You can kill him [laughs], he's an old man.' I used to say, 'Don't take that shit off him.' Because I was always brought up by a woman, so maybe it was different. But I wouldn't let the old man treat me like that. He treated Paul like a child all the time, cut his hair and telling him what to wear, at seventeen, eighteen.There are so many similarities between John's relationship to Paul and to Cyn, it's actually quite scary. He demands full attention and somehow corrupted them both with his crazy ways when they were young. John changed the way Cynthia dressed, made her dye her hair blonde - or she rather did it voluntarily, in order to please him, whereas Paul changed the way he dressed as well, by adopting John's Teddy boy look. (Take for instance the drainies - Paul's father didn't like it at all when Paul wore them, but he still did it, just to get John's attention and to be just as cool as him.)
But Paul would always give in to his dad. His dad told him to get a job, he fucking dropped the group and started working on the fucking lorries, saying, 'I need a steady career.' We couldn't believe it, so I said to him - my Aunt Mimi reminded me of this the other night - he rang up and said that he'd got this job and couldn't come to the group. So I told him on the phone, 'Either come or you're out.' So he had to make a decision between me and his dad then, and he chose me.
However, his relationships to both of them lasted for almost the same amount of time (late 50's till the late 60's) and he abandoned them both for Yoko. He was crazily jealous when Cynthia spoke to someone else from the male gender and we all know how rude and mean he was to Linda. Another good example for John's jealousy would be the quote from Peggy Lipton:
I came for dinner, and I was the only girl there. John definitely didn't like that. He didn't like me being there at ALL. He was mean and sarcastic. As far as he was concerned, I had no business being invited to dinner with the four of them. For him this was an exclusive boys' club. He was purposely making me feel uneasy. At one point, the boys were handing around a scrapbook -- looking at pictures of that first tour. John made some snide comment like, "What is SHE doing here?" I got the idea that he thought Paul was an idiot to take a girl so seriously he'd actually invite her to dinner, when all he really needed to do was fuck her AFTER dinner.
The only difference is that John always wanted to come back to Paul. Cynthia's, but also Yoko's relationship lasted about ten years. Yoko's marriage with him got worse towards the end of his life, but also during the mid-seventies, so that she actually wanted to get divorced from him. Meanwhile, John was quite unhappy and wanted to go back to England, but above all, back to Paul.
In the end, if you keep all of this in mind, one can see that John must have loved Paul. (Not that it's clear already!) I think he loved him a bit more than Cynthia, or Yoko for that matter. I don't recall a single time after his break-up with Cynthia that he wanted to go back to her. But Paul was constantly on his mind, since he obsessed over his music like a maniac and tried to read everything into his lyrics, looking for any hidden messages.
My advice for them, if I had had the chance to tell them so, would have been: JUST FUCK ALREADY, DAMMIT.
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Yeah, so those were all my weird thoughts written down and I hope you two are happy now that I posted it here as well. :B
sick
March 18 2011, 21:10:49 UTC 1 year ago
the amazing moment when someone mentions me on her post
yay! girl you posted!I want to add some more to my comment.I just can't understand john's relationship with cynthia.I mean after seeing how he was with yoko.he was two different men.and as for paul,paul was the dominant figure in their relationship.it's funny.I always think john was the girl.maybe that was what he found in yoko.
as someone said on JHP years ago,john wanted paul with a pussy.
it is creepy.I mean imagining paul with a pussy.
He demands full attention and somehow corrupted them both with his crazy ways when they were young. John changed the way Cynthia dressed, made her dye her hair blonde - or she rather did it voluntarily, in order to please him, whereas Paul changed the way he dressed as well, by adopting John's Teddy boy look.
I guess this is different in paul's case,since both john and paul had some role figures,and those drainies must have been popular amongst the teddy boys but I agree with you,john had a bad influence on paul,surely spoiled that well behaved child.I can't imagine how angry jim was back at that time.on the other hand,paul liked to "please" john, which I found rather amusing and deliciously slashy.awww. :D
March 18 2011, 21:45:17 UTC 1 year ago
Re: the amazing moment when someone mentions me on her post
From my point of view it is a big loss for us girls!
Astrid
March 18 2011, 21:45:59 UTC 1 year ago
Re: the amazing moment when someone mentions me on her post
omg, noMarch 19 2011, 02:05:23 UTC 1 year ago
the bulge
omg,why :DI love a bit competition,it that's what you mean :D
or..hmm..or.we can't have that bulge can we.oh.simple facts.I have to remeber them.
I wish he he could have both,for johnny:D
1 year ago
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March 18 2011, 21:12:14 UTC 1 year ago
March 18 2011, 21:26:25 UTC 1 year ago
He blamed Linda and her family for "corrupting" Paul, for turning him "bourgois." Which, given that Yoko was the daughter of an extremely rich Japanese banker, is a bit on the hypocritical side, don't you think?
March 18 2011, 21:33:34 UTC 1 year ago
March 18 2011, 21:44:34 UTC 1 year ago
March 18 2011, 22:07:54 UTC 1 year ago
March 18 2011, 22:29:11 UTC 1 year ago
You can't blame the heroin since he always had a bad temper. And heroin makes you mellow, doesn't it?
It was a stressful time, and John hated the Eastmans, which is still no excuse for going after your partner's wife.
1 year ago
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March 18 2011, 22:15:10 UTC 1 year ago
March 18 2011, 22:14:18 UTC 1 year ago
March 18 2011, 22:45:44 UTC 1 year ago
March 19 2011, 01:26:13 UTC 1 year ago
March 19 2011, 02:06:36 UTC 1 year ago
Given your post and the evidence you provided, I'd say you've hit the nail on the head a hundred times over :)
March 21 2011, 19:36:32 UTC 1 year ago
March 22 2011, 02:26:18 UTC 1 year ago
March 20 2011, 21:58:35 UTC 1 year ago
You're right; Cyn's quote about having to put John ahead of her own needs and responsibilities is extremely interesting, especially in contrast to Paul's quitting his day job for the band. Going for music full-bore was, all things considered, a much riskier undertaking for Paul than for any of the other Beatles. What I wonder is if John saw that and if his ultimatums were consciously chosen for maximum effect, i.e., you must choose ME over this other REALLY IMPORTANT thing, or if his neediness was more oblivious, i.e., ME ME ME what are these "other responsibilities" you speak of ME ME ME.
I can't bring myself to speculate too much on whether or not John was ready/planning to leave Yoko in the late 80s, but I certainly wouldn't bee surprised if the shine had worn off by then. John had a bad habit of putting his loved ones on pedestals and then freaking out when they fell off. You can hear it plain as day in the Lennon Anthology version of "I Found Out", where he practically spits Paul's name on the "I've seen through religion from Jesus to Paul". I mean, yikes. Who can live up to those kind of expectations?
March 21 2011, 13:36:37 UTC 1 year ago
March 21 2011, 18:51:30 UTC 1 year ago
In those days Paul tried hard to impress John, posing and strutting with his hair slicked back to prove that he was cool, because John was very much the leader: it was his band, he had the final say about who got in and who didn't, and what they played.
(...)
However, Jim was cautious about John; he worried that he might be a bad influence on his son. He told Paul that he wasn't to wear the narrow teddy-boy drainies - drainpipe trousers - that John loved (in fact, John wasn't allowed to wear them either: he wore baggy trousers over them when he went home to Mimi).
So that's why I suppose that John definitely influenced the way Paul used to dress and do his hair. At least one can say that he corrupted his mind. A lot.
What I've been wondering, though, is if John was only that demanding from (potential) lovers or from everyone he was friends with? Did he ask George and Ringo for the same commitment or was it just really Cynthia, Paul and possibly Stu, too?
I suppose he wanted to leave her... After all, he wanted to go back to England and I doubt that Yoko would have come along. Do you happen to have a link for that version? :D
1 year ago
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March 21 2011, 13:11:28 UTC 1 year ago
If you look at how much both John and Paul talk and obsess about each other when they're apart, (including the way Paul has talked right up to this day,) it really doesn't seem to compare to any of their other relationships.
[My advice for them, if I had had the chance to tell them so, would have been: JUST FUCK ALREADY, DAMMIT.]
IMO, their response would have been, "We're way ahead of you there, luv." :-)
March 21 2011, 14:13:03 UTC 1 year ago
Well, their eyesex was already grand. I wonder how wild they
would have beenwere in the bedroom.March 21 2011, 19:13:23 UTC 1 year ago
The way Cyn expresses their relationship made me think hard of how hard John was, with all his partners (specially Paul, at that time Cyn, and at her own time Yoko).
But also... don't you find quite interesting the uneasy way that Cyn writes about Paul? I mean, if you're reading the book, hadn't you noticed the strange way she avoid mentioning him? I hope I'm not the only one who noticed that, and make you think I'm crazy :P
Thanks for sharing <3
March 21 2011, 19:36:02 UTC 1 year ago
March 21 2011, 20:39:06 UTC 1 year ago
That makes me think about how she felt towards the whole Paul-John relationship :P
1 year ago
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